Whole Foods, Tustin, Not perfect, but eminently useful

[Priscilla]

Whole Foods can be a useful store; it is possible to go in there and put together a meal, protein, veg, even bread (their sourdough baked on site ain't bad).

It is not perfect, it is not even easy, but it's kind of amusing.

There are also major holes in the provisioning there that are amazing in their depth. Rice, for instance, since that is what I have struck out on twice now over a long period.

The first time looking for Spanish Valencia rice for paella. Everything for paella in the store, and pretty nice quality, except NO RICE. Now that's just plain stupid, what with the stature of Spanish cuisine lo these past many years.

The other, just yesterday, was Carnaroli rice for risotto. Now, I did find they have Arborio in their bulk section, but I couldn't be sure it was actual Arborio from Italy and not some American simulacrum, plus, as I said, I was after Carnaroli, which I prefer. Arborio will do in a pinch, for instance if that pinch is one is shopping at Trader Joe's that day. One shouldn't have to cut this corner in this vast, hugely vast, really, temple of foodular consumption. I have even found Carnaroli at Ralph's, for God's sake, De Cecco Cry-o-Vac'd among the pastas.

I did find some tomatoes w/no junk, Carmelina brand, at something close to the Claro's price WHEN they have them. Also an organic version, which is good. Also Pomi in the box, which I have always liked.

All those much-vaunted Muir Glen and WF's own 365 brand, taking up a LOT of shelf space with their useless brand-split "flavors" like "garlic" and similar, to a can have citric acid, if not also calcium chloride, every last one of 'em. Pfui.

I was happy to avail myself of the turkey parts, which was what brought me there on this day in the first place -- plans for osso buco di tacchino, and the knowledge that free-range turkey parts were usually available. As they were, AND on sale. Already cheeeeeep at $1.59/lb., they were actually 99 cents/lb. Cheeeeep. AND the guy was so nice about cutting them just the way I wanted.

[Joan]

There's this store called Grocery Outlet, with locations in Buena Park and Fountain Valley. I see Carmelina brand tomatoes there sometimes. I mostly go there for junk food though, and hair care products, so I don't usually pay attention to things like tomatoes, but I'll check next time I'm there.

[Priscilla]

Even though so new, perhaps reflecting a corporate no-resting-on-laurels-or-anything-else philosophy, there have been some changes at The District at Tustin Legacy Whole Foods.

Notably, the bulk foods, which were mystifyingly and inconveniently near the wine, mystifying and inconvenient for bulk-foods buyers and wine buyers both, now have been relocated to a sensible and easy-to-use setup sort of near the veg and the beginning of seafood. SO much better, and the selection seems broader as well. Saw a suspiciously familiar sea salt among the choices, and asked the young stockgirl stocking there if it was possibly from Giusto's and she said she wasn't sure about the salt in particular but could check, but lots of their other bulk items come from Giusto's. Which was for the moment good enough for me, as I have salt in stock but am interesting in alternatives/backups to the Mother's Market hoo-hah I have to go through when I [i]do[/o] need my 50 lb. or whatever it is bag.

Also, no more prime rib sitting appetizingly, if you're there early enough, or decidedly non-appetizingly, if you're there a little later, behind the glass at one o the hot-food stations along the other wall there on the prepared-foods side. Was there also turkey breast? Can't rightly remember, but always thought prime rib san was the way to go if taking out a san after noting the pre-sliced, quite pedestrian state of all the deli san stuff. Now we'll never know! And you know what? We'll live. The roast meat board seems underutilized at the moment, with a hand-lettered sign touting Chinese food, but none in evidence.

[Priscilla]

Oh my goodness it wasn't just RELOCATING the bulk bins... there are MORE of them, with more and better stuff!!!

Including BULK SPICES! A good thing, touched on in the Costa Mesa Food Trail topic by our own Joan.

Now see I find this exciting, provisioning-wise, but them I am that way. There were dismaying signs that this newish WF was thinking the way to greater success was to become more mainstream, for a while, seemed like. But no more. There's clearly a new sheriff in town. It is more, and becoming even more more, Whole Foodsy than it was at opening. Such things hardly EVAR happen.

A word to the wise, howevah: There are some things in the bulk section in both organic and conventional variety. For instance, I was buying pinto beans, which were organic, but it was just by luck because I saw them first. On a later visit I noticed there was another bin of pintos, among the more horizontal ones out in the middle, that was conventionally grown. So if you are in the market for one or the other specifically, it might be there in both.

Yesterday I also had a nice chat with the young meat guy about how could a person who might be interested in such things score the aged ribeye cap from that uncut ageing roast in the meat-ageing case there. Because it would make like the BEST burgers in the UNIVERSE, or possibly. He was typically nice and helpful.

Anyway, very cool, all 'round.

[Priscilla]

It would be remiss of me to fail to point out that Whole Foods at the District at Tustin Legacy became an OCFN member not too long ago.

(If in so pointing out in its actual eponymous topic I don't cause a space-time continuum rift. Guess I'll take my chances.)

[Priscilla]

Excellent prosciutto on Sunday from the deli counter... a Canadian brand, Applegate Farms. Pork, salt only ingredients. Will be my go-to prosciutto until further notice.

[Joan]

What I really love about Whole Foods is that they have pretty much the whole line of Turtle Trails coconut-milk based "ice creams" omg. I know I probably said this before, but this was the best thing I had during all of "birthday week". Best thing.

Bulk spices means, goodbye Henry's! That said, I found out that Sprouts also has a small bulk spices section, if you're in the need, and you have one close by.

This post has been edited by Joan: Aug 10 2009, 03:32 PM

[Priscilla]

Well, to WFatDaTL today for more Applegate Farms prosciutto to match up with my cantaloupe from Friday's farmers market. Also looking for some dinner protein... we've liked pork chops and that is what They wanted and so, proceeded to tell the guy so, and indicate which ones, etc., as per usual. Except, this particular guy doesn't speak English, and in addition to that is not interested in letting us get the items we wanted.

I would like to point out that in LOTS of stores I shop in regularly English is not a first language, and many employees don't speak it much at all, but the lack of a common language has never, ever been a problem. Because through pointing and smiling and communicating, simple things like THAT one not that other one are easy to convey and, understand.

IF there is goodwill and good faith on BOTH sides. Which there was not, in this guy. In a way, he's only following his training, because the meat department at this particular WF has a giant chip on its shoulder about people who WANT TO BUY THINGS FROM THEM. Imagine! They expect to choose an item, and have it weighed and packed in butcher paper!

I was reminded it was a departmental training culture thing rather than a personal decision on his part when I made my way over to the poultry department.

This was a guy I've dealt with before many times in the meat department, the middle-aged guy, no language barrier from him OR me. The barrier in his case is he apparently hates his job, or his customers, or maybe just doesn't like me personally. Howevah, EVEN if it's just me this does not change the fact that what I asked for nicely was a simple thing and he made it clear that is is just SO MUCH EFFING TROUBLE for him to pick out the largest turkey breast in there, wearily, insultingly repeating the death-on-wheels "they're all the same size" universal code for I SO am not going to do this in a nice way. Do you know how much I do not need, NO customer needs, this sort of insulting nonsense from the guy behind the counter?

In an earlier visit I wrote how another meat department guy, a young man, was super nice to us and had no problem getting whatever it was I was after that day AND chatted with me about the fat cap on the ageing rib roasts. Pleasant, got what I wanted, and took WAY LESS time than the other guy's manufactured situation.

Of course it started off on the wrong foot today when the guy was futzing around with signs or something with his back purposefully to the customers, of whom there were now 3 assembled looking to buy meat. Finally I said excuse me could you help me with some turkey and he elaborately with a big sigh put aside his little signs and (without washing his hands, I realized later, and no gloves neither) made his way over to begin the above-described rude service.

You can bet I will go out of my way to avoid this guy from now on, something I hesitated to do today because I thought maybe he'll be nice. There usually is someone else back there, I think. However, Whole Foods at the District at Tustin Legacy, this well might mean someday I skip a $65 meat purchase and spend that instead elsewhere. And I would imagine I am not the only one who has reached this point with the meat department.

It's a damn shame, because this store has really shown itself to be about self-examination and improvement, becoming a tighter ship and more useful each time I visit. Before the meat department unpleasantness, which really threatened to RUIN what was otherwise a typically nice grocery shopping, I had a nice chat with a nice guy stocking the bulk spices, and the woman in the deli/cheese department again sliced my prosciutto like a goddess.

But you know how it is... all the pleasantness in the world gets cancelled out by the bad taste left by the one rude unhappy idiot in the meat department. And let us not forget that shopping at WF is far more a choice than a necessity, too, because it is in the end just a grocery store. If it loses the worth in its value-addedness it loses the ONLY thing that sets it apart from any other store.

[Priscilla]

Well, sorry to say, another terrible experience at the meat counter at Whole Foods at the District at Tustin Legacy.

A simple request for chicken thighs was used as an opportunity for more rudeness and discouragement. I tried seriously to avoid the rude middle-aged guy from the earlier bad time (truly, you DON'T want him touching your food), but spurred I think by the presence of the other guy presently introduced as manager, the rude guy would NOT get lost. To a creepy degree.

Honestly, when a simple request for such a prosaic product causes what should be a 2-minute (pleasant) transaction to be made into a 10-minute rudeness juggernaut, without even ending up with the meat to purchase at the end, there is a problem.

After the person identified as the manager by the rude guy came over and backed up the rude guy's rudeness (how bad a sign is that, in a place of business?) I saw clearly that what I had suspected was correct; the ethic of NOT giving the customer what she wants comes right from the top. A training thing. This happens in business, is really not even unusual. However it is a hallmark of POORLY MANAGED businesses. This enforced and reinforced stupid department culture is not unchangeable, but it shows there has been no supervision from above with an eye to keeping things on a productive track. This is bad, but not fatal, perhaps. Bad department culture is not unchangeable, but it takes someone with the ability to see the proverbial Big Picture, maybe someone whose JOB it is to see the Big Picture, to assess and correct. In this case, it is pretty clear that the meat department staff needs radical culling and replacement -- not as big a deal as it sounds, there are only a few of 'em, and I would bet cash money they are already problem employees.

I am not so naive to think that Whole Foods at the District at Tustin Legacy cares a whit about me and my desultory meat purchases. I am galled by the Potemkin Village sanctimony of the miles-long meat counter and its multitudinous self-aggrandizing signage and its awful employees. Animals have given their lives for what's in that case! The whole department should be run with honor with that in mind, if not for the lesser but related goal of customer service.

[Priscilla]

I should note that I have been in WF a few times since the bad meat department experience(s), but not for meat.

We can hardly live without the olive bar, it is so extensively well-stocked. LOVE to be able to get cornichons on the olive bar!

And of course for my Jason natural bath gel stuff... essential.

And oh this & that. But NOTHING from the meat department.

FISH, I might revisit, SOMEday.

[alosha7777]

I know you're not fond of the meat counter any more, and I don't blame you, but when I was there picking up b/s thighs yesterday (lordy, I still love their chicken), I walked by the beef section and noticed some amazing specials. I am a newly converted El Toro Gourmet Meats patron, as you know, and the beef there does taste better. Love. But I can't pass up the prices for what I know are pretty nice quality meats. New York strip steaks for $6.99/lb (down from $12.99/lb), flank steak for $9.99/lb (down from $14.99/lb) and Spencer rib eyes for $10.99 or $11.99/lb, don't know for sure (down from $16.99/lb). They were almost out of everything yesterday, but they're getting a shipment today, so tomorrow or Wednesday would be good to go if you want to snag some beef for the deep freeze.

Also, if you're going to deal with anyone in that department, it should be Chase. He's so nice, so helpful, so accommodating and he genuinely cares about his products and his job. He came over from an Albertson's 6 months ago or so and is just ten times more engaged and enthusiastic than the other guys behind that counter (morose twits that they are).

[Priscilla]

Those are pretty incredible prices... like half off???!!! Down in the neighborhood of regular supermarket prices.

NY at that price would be good for teriyaki, for instance, to which I would not subject El Toro Meat NY strip but we like for the occasional donburi.

So, useful. Thanks, Melissa.

And I am glad to know the name of the nice person in the meat department. I wonder if he is the nice one I've encountered. As I say up there we find the olive bar pretty irreplaceable, so are in WF fairly frequently, EVEN while avoiding the rude meat guys. And the prosciutto slicing person on Sundays was sort of a goddess to me, by the end of summer, after all those cantaloupes.

[alosha7777]

Those gals are always so nice. I got some meat for sandwiches yesterday and they were just insanely friendly as usual.

Teriyaki sounds like a plan. See what I mean though? I can't pass up prices like that.

[alosha7777]

EDIT: NY strip $11.99 (from $17.99) tri tip $6.99 (from $12.99) flank steak $9.99 as scoped out on Sunday. Beef shanks also on sale for $2.99. That's it.

After today, I don't know if I will return to the meat counter at Whole Foods. I went to pick up my NY's and when I approached the counter, I scanned for the on sale Spencer rib eyes I thought were supposed to be there as well. No luck. The youngish guy in front of me, after joking around with his coworker, turned and asked if he could get me something. This was the gist of the conversation:

Me: Are there no rib eyes on sale?
Him: Nope.
(silence)
Me: Hm, I really thought they were supposed to be. I guess I was misinformed.
(silence)
(staring)
(silence)
Me: Okay...
Him: New Yorks are on sale.
Me: Yes...
(silence)
Me: Okay, I'll take two of those, the fifth and sixth ones back from me.
(grabs, weighs, wraps, smacks on counter)
Him: Anything else?
Me: Uh, yeah, a pound of flank steak.
(grabs, weighs, wraps, smacks on counter)
Him: Anything else?
Me: No, that's it.
(walks off)
Me: (saying loudly to his back) Yeah, maybe for you to be NICE.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive. But hey, sensitivity can be a positive quality, i.e., I know (I feel in my gut) when people are being nice, tolerant or rude. And this is not the first time he has been this way. Priscilla, I bet if you saw him, you would finger him as one of the people you've dealt with.

The more I thought about it, the more annoyed I got and by the time I went to check out, I was thisclose to returning the meat to the cashier and saying I didn't want it. I didn't want to give my money to them. But... well, I really wanted the steaks and hub did too. So I paid and left. I just don't know that I will go back. I was fine before with those guys being hit and miss. And there's always that super nice guy Chase on the weekends. But something really, really rubbed me the wrong way today.

So where was it again that I can get good chicken?

One bright spot: I got the most deeeeeeeelicious!!! sample today of Persian feta in olive oil and herbs on a thin cracker. Outstanding. I may buy some for Thanksgiving for my appetizer plate.

This post has been edited by alosha7777: Nov 17 2009, 03:35 PM

[Priscilla]

Melissa! I hope I didn't jinx it for you. But I am NOT making it up, and not even exaggerating.

Don't let it spoil your enjoyment of what you bought. That is the hard thing, for me. But one must soldier through. The ingredients are blameless, pretty much, beyond getting themselves stocked in that particular WF, and they probably didn't know or were in denial.

The pre-packed stuff you can get without having to interact with the idiots behind the counter, at least. When I buy bsc thighs it is usually @ Costco, garden-variety Foster Farms. Whole chickens I like the free-range organic roasters from Trader Joe's, but they, like everything else at Trader Joe's, are not dependably stocked. But good! (Free-range, as we have seen from Michael Pollan's writings, means little, but my hope is that a chicken raised and marketed that way, while not running free in a field, might have been raised with some extra care. What we want, Pollan reminds us, is pastured chicken, which I have not seen in Orange County. Couple of the egg sellers at farmers markets have chicken, but I am not sure if they are designated pastured. I think this will improve, however, but who knows when.

Chicken livers, the times I buy them for pate or chopped liver or chicken liver mousse, all of which I love to make, I have LOVED having WF for because the liver in an animal is such a repository for toxins and other unappetizing stuff, plus where else in OC are there chicken livers sold in sufficient quantity to justify their own slot in the service meat case? I don't know where else I'd go! Cross my fingers and duck in and hope for the best I suppose, at WFatDaTL.

I don't have any way of knowing how serious it is for WFatDaTL that the meat department is such a blot on an otherwise pretty good organization. Maybe it's not a huge profit center. However, I think it has to earn its keep like any department and bad service like that can't help but affect sales eventually. Sales will undoubtedly eventually be AFFECTED but whether store management connects that with service issues is another leap that may or may not be made. Easy to write off as merely additional evidence of what we in my household call TET (trying economic times). A LOT of business hiccups that maybe have other causes will handily be ascribed to TET.

What I would like, however, is to be able to shop at WFatDaTL meat department. That's what I'd like.

[ivan]

WF meat and poultry quality is good, but only somewhat better than what can be obtained with careful shopping at generic supermarkets. Same goes, astonishingly, for the produce, once you get beyond the dazzle of mountains of kale that apparently never move. WF management seems to be banking on consumers' perception of WF as a unique source of ecclectic, esoteric and superior products, and expect people to keep coming back despite abysmal service. But consumers eventually see through the hype. My own list of items that I will go out of my way to get from WF has dwindled to 2 -- olives from the olive bar, and prosciutto from the deli counter -- and those 2 are hanging by a thread. For everything else, I can get as good or better -- and sometimes cheaper -- elsewhere, and not be left feeling like I've been dissed or made a stooge of.

But hey, nice store.

[alosha7777]

"For everything else, I can get as good or better -- and sometimes cheaper -- elsewhere, and not be left feeling like I've been dissed or made a stooge of."

Totally. Agreed.

[Priscilla]

Good oysters from WF@tD@TL for New Year's... Fanny Bay, Hood Canal, Kumamotos, and the fish guy was helpful and nice.

Also shrimp, I do appreciate how they have more than a single size/type of wild shrimp. And extremely fair prices, for shrimp anyways, esp. considering NO JUNK phospate soak. VERY hard to find shrimp w/o this additiive. Roasted for cocktail, they were excellent.

And of course more cornichons from the olive bar. THAT continues to be a boon.

[Priscilla]

Olive restocking today, plus cornichons. I scored several onions from the cornichon bin as well, in anticipation of the odd Gibson. The giant-sized pimiento-stuffed olives are so good, in a martooni or out. The smaller stuffed ones they have, not so good, even IF the pimiento didn't fall out which it does, and does NOT on the giant delicious ones.

Organic kidney and pinto beans, and I needed dry-roasted or at least roasted and salted peanuts, and wouldn't you know, not a g.d. roasted peanut in the entire bulk universe at WF@tD@TL. 80 varieties of cashews, howevah. The nice young man stocking bulk bins showed me there were raw blanched, so I took some of those and toasted and salted them at home, but regular deeply dry-roasted would have been better for my slaw.

I think this is discrimination! People want peanuts! I am biased, admittedly; peanuts are on my top-5 list of foods. But still.

[Priscilla]

While sort of a typically frustrating visit overall to WF@tD@TL on Sat, it did yield some very very good bay shrimp for cocktail, no small thing.

I happen to like the teensy tender bay shrimp sometimes, for some applications, and these were just head and shoulders in texture and flavor above the last best, from Santa Monica Seafood. (They were both Canadian wild in origin.) Since all bay shrimp are instafroz upon harvest, the good quality points to careful, correct handling right in the store. That is a VERY good thing, in a fish department.

And the guy was pleasant and efficient.

Also, smoked shredded chicken made great tacos... and is a stone bargain @ $5.99/lb. Definitely something to keep in one's back pocket for future. The smoked-meat guy was a big sweetie.

25-cents EACH jalapenos were nice and hot. You know how lots of the ones in stores are the mild hybrid. Not the absolute snappy-crispy-freshest chiles one might expect from WF and at WF prices, but at least usable. The serranos were abysmal, embarrassing; wrinkled and collapsing, should have been removed the day before yesterday, etc.

Cornichons, cocktail olives, eating olives, all good. Which is good, since that is what we were after in the first place.